OPP 051: Columbia Coronavirus Vaccine Panel

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     The One Priority Podcast is sponsored and supported by the Columbia Metro Baptist Association and the almost 100 family churches that support the ministry of the CMBA.

This week, Dr. George Bullard, Executive Director of the CMBA, and Dr. Andre Rogers, Pastor at Concord Fellowship Baptist Church have a candid conversation with a panel of state & community leaders from the Columbia Metro to address the anxiety that exists in the African-American community surrounding the Coronavirus vaccine.  Let’s listen in to this essential conversation.

Chris Reinolds:

Welcome to the “One Priority Podcast”, where our goal is starting and strengthening congregations to serve as vital and vibrant missional communities. The “One Priority Podcast” is sponsored and supported by The Columbia Metro Baptist Association and the almost 100 family churches that support the ministry of the CMBA.

This week Dr. George Bullard, Executive Director of the CMBA, and Dr. Andre Rogers, pastor at Concord Fellowship Baptist Church, have a candid conversation with a panel of state and community leaders from around the Columbia metro area to address the anxiety that exists in the African-American community surrounding the Coronavirus vaccine.

Let’s listen in to this essential conversation.

George Bullard:

Welcome, my name’s George Bullard, and I’m the Executive Director of the Columbia Metro Baptist Association. We’re 95 Baptist Churches in the midlands of South Carolina, but we have a heart for all of the South Carolina and all of the world. Part of our heart goes to how everyone is being impacted by the pandemic. We’ve been working with our churches and with the community over the last 10 months, as we have been experiencing and having to deal with the pandemic, and now we’re to the point of the vaccine.

We felt it would be great to get a group of people together to talk about accepting receiving the vaccine and how that fits into the elimination of the pandemic. We put together a group of people and the host for most of the conversation is going to be Dr. Andre Rogers. He’s pastor of the Concord Fellowship Baptist Church here in Columbia, and also a professor and administrator at Columbia International University.

Dr. Rogers, let me turn it over to you at this point, as we talk about the hesitancy that some people have in regard to accepting the vaccine and how we might move forward with that.

Dr. Andre Rogers:

Well I want to ask this distinguished panel that we have this afternoon, why are some people, especially African-Americans, hesitant about taking the COVID-19 vaccine? I want to first of all start with Dr. Kenneth Rogers.

Dr. Kenneth Rogers:

Well I think that there are a lot of reasons why people are hesitant. I think that, we often talk about the Tuskegee Syphilis trials, and while that was really a long time ago, what we found is that it’s become one of those things that gets passed down from one generation to the next generation. But then we look at the number of experimentations and things that have happened in the United States, and over time, there becomes a distrust of the health system in general. Even in modern times, what we see is that, oftentimes there is a differential between how African-Americans are treated, how other populations are treated. As a result, we look at the inequities that exist in the system and people just become reluctant to engage with health care in general. As a result, you add something new like a vaccine that’s coming out very, very quickly, people perceive it’s very quick, and so they’re like, “I’m not taking that,” because of the rhetoric that’s happened around it, the conversations that’s occurred, some statement of distrust that have really come from political leaders. As a result, folks have decided, “I really don’t want that.”

But, the good news is that, as we look at some of the new data that’s occurring, you see more and more people that are now willing to take the vaccine. We were at about 49% a few weeks ago, we’re now seeing that number continuing to go up to a little over 60-65% at this point in some of the latest polls. We’re seeing some shifting as people are able to kind of weigh the pros and the cons of the vaccines and see people that haven’t been harmed by it.

Dr. Andre Rogers:

I’m sorry, Dr. Rogers, I didn’t give you a chance to introduce yourself. Why don’t you tell us which agency you work for and what do you do?

Dr. Kenneth Rogers:

I’m Ken Rogers, I’m a psychiatrist that works for the state department of mental health.

Dr. Andre Rogers:

Not just work for the department of mental health, but he’s the lead person there at the department of mental health. Well, Chief Austin, the second question for you, sir, and would you introduce yourself first, why are some people, especially African-Americans, hesitant about taking the COVID-19 vaccine?

Charles Austin, Sr.:

Okay, Charles P. Austin, Sr. I can probably give you any number of facts, but, for this evening, I come to you as a pastor of the Village of Hope Fellowship in Columbia, South Carolina, as well as in my role as the Chair of the Richland County Voter Registration and Elections Office. When I don’t have anything else to do, I teach classes at Benedict College in the Criminal Justice Administration and Social Sciences Department.

From my perspective, Dr. Rogers, the suspicion and mistrust that we’re seeing stands to a great extent to the failure of our leadership to acknowledge the presence of the vaccine in the first place. When you tell people that this is not a serious matter or it’s something that’s just going to go away, but then the number of persons who test positive for the virus continues to increase, the number of deaths worldwide and within the US continues to increase, but then all of a sudden you tell me that you have authorized this process to speed up the development of vaccines.

Whereas we’ve been told over the years that it takes a number of years to get approval for a vaccine, now you’re telling me that, in short order, you have a vaccine available. I’m speaking as one who has had my first dose of the vaccine, but, in talking with our parishioners and with others throughout the community, that’s been a major obstacle, a major impediment. Dr. Rogers addressed it, the ongoing rhetoric about whether there is a virus or is this a hoax, and of course, there are people who bought into the hoax factor. Now we have to try to reverse all of that.

Dr. Andre Rogers:

Wow. Savannah Rogers, let’s go with you. Why do you recommend getting the COVID-19 vaccine?

Savannah Rogers:

Hello, My name is Savanna Rogers. I am a sophomore at Vanderbilt University where I’m majoring in Neuroscience with a Minor in African-American and Diaspora Studies. I think that people should get the vaccine because we need herd immunity in order to stop wearing masks and to stop social distancing, we need as many people as possible to take the vaccine. What that means, that as soon as it’s your time to take it, you should sign up to take the vaccine. I know there’s been skepticism about how much the vaccine has been tested on humans, and, that’s due to just not a lot of communication with how the vaccine has come about and people not researching how it’s come about because most of the vaccine is from old research. Research that’s been developed for many, many years. Now that they brush up the process to make sure it could work for the COVID-19 pandemic, and they’ve seen that with some studies that it could work.

I think it’s important that we all try our best to look out, not for ourselves only, but look out for other people that may not be able to wear masks, or older populations, any step that we can take to stop the spread of COVID-19, we should take.

Dr. Andre Rogers:

Wow. Senator Scott, thank you for being here this afternoon. I know you’re busy, but why do you recommend getting the COVID-19 vaccine?

State Sen. John L. Scott, Jr., SC:

Well first, when you look at all of the scenarios that have occurred leading up to the vaccine, there’s so much information out there that the average person has not been exposed to. I had no idea over 100 different companies that were in trial to fine-tune and trying to find an answer to the vaccine. This is the first time that the world has been involved in the pandemic. Normally, it’s something even the United States like smallpox or chicken pox or something like that. It allows a time period to go. When you have an influx of folk coming into the United States from across the world every day continue to infect people, people really don’t know what to do, and whether or not it’s a good decision to take it.

The other part is, the government as a whole, from the federal government to the state government, and now some of the local government, did not take this virus very serious. We still don’t have a statewide requirement that you wear masks and stay six feet apart. We only have a recommendation that we do that. Even the federal government never made it a national requirement to wear masks. So the net results of that, people themselves did not take it very serious. At the time the virus came in, we’ve had through a whole different holidays. And if folk here were able to follow a national law or have a national responsibility to the virus, we got to this point, of course not without seeing 400,000 deaths. 5,400 right here in South Carolina, folk would have been accustomed to trying to find ways to prevent themselves from dying.

You still have part of the community still don’t believe that the virus is going to change anything. I think we’ve seen now that national leaders began to take it, and folk are still waiting to see whether or not the vaccine is a hoax. I think he helped give some of that. What has created even more backlog in terms of peoples’ minds and thought pattern, is the simple fact that we’ve had problems just rolling the vaccine out in many places, not only in South Carolina but across the country, did not receive enough vaccine even still some of the smaller plans that have been out there. People have so many mixed emotions, have seen so many mixed, different ways this thing should have been done, and mixed ways it is being done. People are very afraid. One of the things that we’ve not seen is unification in the political community, the faith-based community, the grassroots communities say this is a good thing and we need to do that. I think we’ll find people as we come together as a whole again to do that, we’ll begin to take the vaccine.

Dr. Andre Rogers:

Wow, thank you so much, Senator Scott. Thank you so much for your time. Pastor Melvin, I want to ask you between these two questions that we asked about the hesitancy about taking the COVID-19 vaccine, and recommendation, what are you, as a pastor and a community leader, what are you feeling about this issue?

Pastor Melvin:

I think that it’s an important discussion and I agree with all of our panelists today that we need to have a consistent message, not only from the national leaders, but local leaders, to express the importance of taking this vaccine. I think that’s the issue, the hesitancy, of course, is a novice of a virus. It’s not something that we just learned about a year ago and because of how last year rolled out and how the challenges and so forth. Even the mixed messaging and disbelief or what have you, or denial. A lot of people are confused and trying to figure out what should they do.

If the local leaders, if the pastors and administrators, as Senator Scott said, would get together to have a unified message, I believe that what will happen is people will begin to accept and begin to move into the direction of taking this vaccine for, not only their safety but for the safety of their family. I really feel like it’s really important for us to communicate this information and to recommend using influence that we have with the community, with our members, with our neighbors, that they should take this seriously and take this vaccine because, especially in our culture, they’re looking to leadership, they’re looking to those who should be in the know and should have the information. It’s really important that we get that information out to as many people as possible.

Dr. Andre Rogers:

Thanks a lot. Dr. Bullard, there’s a lot of questions around this subject and issue. What’s your perspective on this?

George Bullard:

Well first of all, I’m excited, we’re recording this on Thursday, January 21. Today, our newly-inaugurated president, Joe Biden, released the White House plan, the national plan, owned getting the vaccine out and dealing with COVID-19. It’s a 200-page report. You can go to whitehouse.gov and download it. I’ve downloaded it but haven’t read 200 pages yet. I think we’re beginning to make progress today.

I particularly appreciate thus far, that several people, Savanna I think was the first one to do it, but may not have been, I know Andre and Melvin also mentioned it, that there’s a key word in the midst of all of this, and it is the word, “others”. One of the reasons why we ought to be interested, and all of us take the risk. Myself, and I’ll speak to that in a minute, take the risk to have the vaccine is that we’re concerned about others. We want our society to be well, we want our society to be open, we want to hug our children and our grandchildren in a way we haven’t been able to hug them before. We want to go to church in a way that we can go to church. We want to go to the restaurant. We want to go to all of those kinds of things that are there, and I think we can do that. But there is a trust factor as we’ve mentioned, and there is inside ourselves, a risk factor.

I’m 70 years old, so I had the privilege of taking my first dose this week. I went to the Gamecock Club where the National Guard Armory is across from Williams Brice Stadium. There was a very well-organized and intricate system and questions that they would ask, and they were careful and they were caring, in terms of what was happening. I celebrate all of that.

One of the questions that I would have, and I’m not sure who on our panel might want to render some specific information or opinion on this, but, some people I’ve heard wonder, “Well, should I take the Pfizer vaccine, should I take the Moderna, should I wait for the Johnson & Johnson to come out, or for the AstraZeneca vaccine?” Anybody have any insight into that, or something they want to express? I will say that I had my first dose with the Pfizer vaccine.

Dr. Andre Rogers:

My first dose was the Moderna. I really have not heard anything that says to me that either has an advantage over the other. They’re the two that are available right now. One of the things I’ve been doing is saying to people, rather than saying, “You need to go get the vaccine,” I’ve asked folk to check with their health care or primary care physician to determine if it’s compatible with their medical situation. I have not experienced any side effects. I had a little soreness in my arm for a day or two but that has since diminished. I haven’t heard anything yet that would cause me to believe that one is more advantageous than the other.

George Bullard:

Yeah I would simply say, and I would affirm that, and I haven’t heard anything either. In my Pfizer, one thing I thought about was, I haven’t had as much reaction, just a little bit of soreness in the arm, to any other vaccine I’ve had. In other words, it seemed typical in terms of anything that I’ve experienced.

Anyone else have any kind of insights into it, if someone was to say to you, “Should I get this one or this one or wait on these?” What is your thought?

State Sen. John L. Scott, Jr., SC:

Dr. MD Juan C Revell writes in a journal dealing with allergies, and it’s very true, both Pfizer and Moderna went through the same type of process through the US Food and Drug Administration. They’re both supposed to have the same basic ingredients, which is the small mRNA messenger “ribonuca”, I think that’s how you pronounce it, acid, and supposed to be able to do the same thing, to be able to destroy the virus. I think the only difference is Pfizer requires refrigeration and Moderna does not. Now why, I don’t know. Reckon that one has a little bit more ingredients and in order to maintain the acid base in it, it’s just required refrigeration. In both cases, both of these drugs are being sent all across the world. I think Europe began to take the drug before we began to take the drug. That’s enough time between the two countries if there was something real major difference we should know about now.

George Bullard:

Yeah. And Dr. Kenneth Rogers, you were going to speak to that too, I believe.

Dr. Kenneth Rogers:

I tell people to take the one that is available to you right now, because there is no guarantee that you’re going to get the one you want because the way that the vaccines are being distributed, it really depends on the location that you’re going to. The big difference between the two is that one has to be kept at an ultra-cold temperature. That’s the Pfizer vaccine. Most places can’t keep the Pfizer vaccine in stock because they don’t have freezers that cold.

What you’ll do is you’ll find Pfizer at a lot of the large health systems. If you’re at Prisma Health here in Columbia, or if you’re at Vanderbilt in Tennessee, you’re probably going to have the Pfizer vaccine available to you. If you’re going to a local doctor’s office, you’re probably going to have the Moderna vaccine available to you because it doesn’t have to be kept as cold as long. It’s probably going to be available.

The ability to prevent Coronavirus is going to be about the same, about 95% in both situations. I think having either one available. I will take this opportunity to talk a little about what Senator Scott was talking a little bit ago. One of the things that’s important is to think about how the vaccines work. In the past, what’s happened is, if we were trying to look at flu vaccine, for example, the thing that we did was we took a little bit of the flu, we call attenuated, we kind of killed it, but it’s still there, and then we inject it into your body and that’s basically how vaccines have worked.

This new vaccine works in a very different way. It uses what’s called messenger RNA, ribonucleic acid, and RNA is what makes the proteins in our bodies. One of the proteins is called an antigen. If we think about having this cell here, on top, we have this little crown, which is the Coronavirus crown. That’s where we need the antibody to attack. As we have an antigen which is a protein, your body creates antibodies to attack it. Those antibodies as they develop in your body, is what prevents the Coronavirus from happening.

Both the Moderna and the Pfizer work exactly the same way. Thus far, they have both been incredibly safe. Chief Austin mentioned earlier the fact that a little bit of shoulder soreness is going to be the biggest thing that you’re going to see. Otherwise, you haven’t really seen a lot of side effects from either of the vaccines. The biggest side effect that we’ve seen is a little bit of an anaphylactic reaction, which is why, usually after the vaccine, they have you sit in the office where you took it, for about 10-15 minutes. Then you’re able to leave. Outside of that, we really haven’t seen a lot of problems.

I’ve had both doses of the Pfizer vaccine, and I felt great through both of them.

George Bullard:

Dr. Rogers, that was wonderful, and I’d like to add to that, when I had my first dose several days ago, out at the armory and I did my waiting, I heard one of the medical personnel say, and I was there about two o’clock in the afternoon, says, “We haven’t had anybody all day that couldn’t leave after their 15 minutes because nobody has had any kind of reaction that would cause them to have to leave.” They were saying it’s just going so great in terms of what’s happening.

Some people are wondering, and there may be some of you on the screen that have some insight into this, some people are simply asking the question, “When will it be my turn to get the vaccine?” What insight do you have to that, anything that we can share with our audience?

Dr. Kenneth Rogers:

The vaccine is being distributed in three phases right now. There’s 1a, 1b, and 1c, and then Phase Two. So 1a was all of your health care professionals because it was felt that the most important thing to do was to make sure that the folks that are actually taking care of you are, 1) Coronavirus-free to the extent possible, but also healthy enough to be able to take care of the population. It’s kind of like being on the plane, make sure your mask falls, make sure you put yours on before you try to help other people. That was the idea with 1a. Then, there was 1b and 1c, which is really folks that are over 70 and then folks that are actually working with the frontline folks, police officers, firefighters, but also in C, looking at the people that are providing essential services. The folks in grocery stores, because the last thing we want is for people in grocery stores to begin getting sick.

That’s Phase 1a, 1b, and 1c. Then, Phase 2 is the rest of the general population. The initial idea is that 1a would be done by early spring, and now what we’re seeing is we’re actually beginning to get close to the end of 1a and beginning to move into the 1b population. Through the summer, we’ll get through 1b and 1c if all goes well. By late summer, early fall, we should be moving into Phase 2, so that by mid-fall of this year, we will have gotten to the entire population as Savanna was saying earlier. That’s when we really will begin to have what’s called “herd immunity”. As we get enough people in the population vaccinated, we’ll see those numbers begin to drop.

George Bullard:

Right. Anyone else have any insight into that?

Charles Austin, Sr.:

Yes. Dr. Rogers, you mention herd immunity, and I know that was a really strong discussion a few months ago. I believe a few, just help me understand the difference between the discussion about herd immunity then and the herd immunity that you’re mentioning now.

Dr. Kenneth Rogers:

Right. Unfortunately, some of the rhetoric we got into earlier kind of made herd immunity a bad thing. Whenever you have a disorder that’s infectious, one of the things that you want is for enough people in the population to be immune to it so that it’s not passing to others. If you get up to around 70% of the population that’s no longer infectious, the spread slows down substantially. You can accomplish herd immunity in a couple different ways. One is, you could just naturally let enough people get sick. People will either succumb to the illness, or either they’ll become immune to it. That’s absolutely what we don’t want.

The other way of achieving herd immunity is making sure that we get enough people vaccinated so that, if we get all of 1a, 1b, 1c and significantly into group 2, what we’ll find is that those numbers of infected people will begin to drop because there are fewer people to become infected. For example, if I’m in my house and I’m immune, my wife is immune, my son is immune, and somebody comes to visit us, the chances of them infecting us is a lot lower, but the chance of us affecting them is significantly lower. It goes from 20-30% down to significantly below 5%. At that point, we have what’s called herd immunity, so we’re not passing the virus around nearly as much.

George Bullard:

One thing today, Dr. Fauci in the press conference in the White House also indicated that, with the mutations that people are hearing about, that, the sooner more people get vaccinated, the less opportunity there will be for the virus itself to mutate and spread among people in a mutated form. He put a certain pedal-to-the-metal about the urgency of that. Of course, that then speaks into the issue of will we have the supply? Dr. Andre Rogers, let me pitch it back your direction to take us forward on some of the questions.

Dr. Andre Rogers:

I’m wondering if one has already had COVID-19, do they still need to get vaccinated with the COVID-19 vaccine and why?

Dr. Kenneth Rogers:

Absolutely. The thing that you want is immunity. If you’ve had COVID-19, your immunity is going to be based on a couple of things. Remember, we talked about earlier, you’ve got the cell, you’ve got the crown here. It’s creating antibodies. The number of antibodies is going to depend on how much antigen is there. How much antigen is there is going to really dictate how sick one becomes. If you’ve got somebody that had COVID and they were really, very, very sick, their immunity level is going to be a lot higher than one who may test positive but may have never had any symptoms at all. You’ve got really two different things that you’re dealing with.

Now, with either of those groups, the thing that we don’t know is how long does the immunity last from a natural COVID infection. We don’t have that data.

Dr. Andre Rogers:

I thought it lasts forever.

Dr. Kenneth Rogers:

No it does not last forever.

Dr. Andre Rogers:

Oh, okay.

Dr. Kenneth Rogers:

Even if you get a vaccine, we can’t necessarily say that it lasts forever. In fact, in all likelihood, it doesn’t last forever, which is why we have to have a flu shot every year to basically get what’s there for that particular year. The reason you want to have the vaccine is really multifold. First thing is, you want to make sure your immunity is at 95%, which is where it will be after your second shot seven days later. You have a 95% chance of not having COVID.

The other thing it does is it protects other individuals, again, because of the herd immunity. We’re going to continue to have to wear masks because one of the things we know is it protects you, but the thing we don’t know is whether you could still get an asymptomatic case of COVID because there is still that 5% chance of becoming infected. If you’re not wearing a mask, you’re not having any symptoms, we’re assuming you can’t give it to other people, when in fact, you may be able to.

So I suspect we’ll still be wearing masks for an extended period of time, even after we get everybody vaccinated.

State Sen. John L. Scott, Jr., SC:

Now doc, you said something real quick and I think it may have gone over folk head. You mentioned the seven days, and folks who have just taken the vaccine, still need to protect themselves, because they need that time period, for the vaccine to actually begin to work. Your body’s still not 100% protected within that seven day period of time, until the vaccine really kicks in. Do you want to talk a little bit about that, because people think they take this shot and you’re okay from the time you leave from the shot.

Dr. Kenneth Rogers:

Absolutely. Basically, there will be three shots available in the United States in the next couple of weeks. Right now, we have the Pfizer, we have the Moderna, we’ll probably have the Johnson & Johnson or AstraZeneca coming out in the next couple of weeks. The Pfizer vaccine, you get your first shot. 21 days later, you’re going to get your second shot. After that first shot, you’re going to have some immunity somewhere in the neighborhood of 50%, based on the data that I’ve seen, maybe a little bit higher.

You get that second shot 21 days later. Seven days after you get that second shot is when you’re going to be at full immunity. You’re going to be at 95% immunity at that point. Same thing with Moderna. Moderna, you get the first shot, you’re probably going to have about a 50% effectiveness rate. Moderna is going to be four weeks later, so 28 days later, you’re going to get your second shot. Seven days after that is when you’re going to get full immunity.

The Johnson & Johnson that’s coming out relatively soon, it’s going to be the only one that’s going to be a one-injection vaccine where you don’t need a second injection. So you have that one and then a period of time after that, and then you’ll be fully immune, at least 95% is what it looks like at the present moment. But yeah, it doesn’t happen immediately, and it doesn’t necessarily happen immediately after that second shot that you’re going to be at 95%. It’s going to gradually go up. That’s a very good point, thank you for pointing it out.

Dr. Andre Rogers:

Wow. Savanna, I’m wondering, what are college students feeling about this, about getting the vaccine? What are college students feeling about, because we know that COVID-19 is really spreading among our college population, not necessarily dying in that population but spreading in that population. As we talk about this whole getting this vaccine from COVID-19, what is the average college student thinking?

Savannah Rogers:

I would say that when the pandemic first started and we got back to campus, in the August time period, there were a lot of people that I heard on campus saying, “We are not getting the vaccine.” It was just the same reasoning that people have presented here today, just not trusting that it was tested fully. Since more news coverage has been brought on the vaccine, I’ve seen a lot of college students change their mindset and becoming more open to taking the vaccine. The problem is, we’re in the last few groups to get the vaccine. With that being said, it’s become a concern with students that they won’t be able to have the college experience.

Even with being on campus, I am fortunate enough to go to a school where we are getting regularly tested this semester. We’re getting tested twice a week. There’s a huge enforcement of wearing masks and social distancing, but that’s not being seen at all universities. There are students that are scared for their health, but they also want to pursue their education. Knowing that they will be in the last group, they wonder when education will return back to normal. That’s just because virtual courses are more difficult for other people than it is for others. Professors aren’t teaching the same. There are some professors are not actually teaching, they’re just posting work for the students to do. Those are real concerns.

I believe that students are open to taking the vaccine now. They’re just worried about getting back to normal education.

Dr. Andre Rogers:

Wow. Thank you so much. Chief Austin, I want to ask you a question. You talk about voters being over voting and all of that, and polling. Will getting the vaccine in the future affect whether or not people vote or whether or not they will come out to the polls?

Charles Austin, Sr.:

I absolutely believe it will. We saw the effects of that during this last election cycle. Thankfully, Senator Scott and his colleagues at the general assembly, through their wisdom, were allowed to implement procedures that mitigated the necessity for people to come to the polls. I certainly believe unless we are able to offer some assurance, that we’ve taken steps, that steps are in place, to reduce the prospect of this continuing, it will have an effect. Yes.

Dr. Andre Rogers:

Wow. Pastor Melvin, you’ve been so patient this afternoon. You are on the front line as a community leader. You lead seven different, or six or seven different associations in the 29203 ZIP code, which is one of our heavily populated African-American ZIP codes. You also pastor, and you live amongst that ZIP code as well. I’m just wondering, as we get prepared to wrap this discussion up, what are your thoughts, how do we move into the future, where do we go with this conversation, how can we help African-Americans trust this vaccine, trust this process, trust that everything has been done to par, in order to protect their health?

Pastor Melvin:

I think the answer to that is, continue to develop, create, and work partnerships so that we can continue to share this important information. I think the issue is a lot of people are concerned because they don’t have the right information. This information is so important to know about the options that we have, the timeline as it relates to when to get this vaccination, why it’s important to do so. I do actually have a question, just because I know that people may be asking this question as it relates to the receiving of the vaccine. I heard Dr. Rogers mention the timeline between Pfizer versus Moderna and the third option there, I think was the Johnson & Johnson, which has just one vaccine. Is there a danger, and I’m sure that medical professionals may be watching this, but just in case, is there a danger that you take one vaccine but there’s a mixing. What might be the danger if you took Moderna and then the next time you go and take the second shot, you take Pfizer, is there some safeguards to help our people from not entering into that area?

Dr. Kenneth Rogers:

There’s no data on mixing the vaccines. The system that you use to sign up will always sign you up for the same type that you took at first. If your first dose was Pfizer, you’re going to be signed up to take your second dose as Pfizer, and the same thing with Moderna. It’s actually going to be relatively difficult to mix the two as someone in the population, just because the safeguards are in place to try to avoid that, and keep it from happening. But, to your question, we just don’t have the data to answer that question.

Pastor Melvin:

And I’ve been hearing that because of the issue with supply, we talked about, or heard that, you take the first dose today and perhaps as far as Pfizer, if I’m correct, seven days later, you take the second dose. I know that I’ve had conversations with people saying, “Well, what if I take the first dose but they don’t have any supply for the second dose”, how do we maneuver around that?

Dr. Kenneth Rogers:

It’s 21 days with Pfizer between doses. That’s becoming an increasing issue now, because, what’s happening is there’s a vaccine administration system that’s used to help sign people up for the vaccines. What’s actually happening now is that, sometimes there’re fewer appointments available, and some of those appointment times are getting scheduled out further than they should be. I know that that’s a conversation that’s occurring nationally. It’s also a conversation that’s occurring here in South Carolina through the Department of Health and Environmental Control, to figure out what do you do in those situations.

That is a challenge that’s happening right now, and hopefully, we’ll get some guidance relatively soon.

Pastor Melvin:

Okay. As I stated, and thank you all for the opportunity for me to be a part of this panel, but, I think this information is so important for everyone to hear, to get comfortable, and to begin to act on taking the vaccinations as it becomes available. My concern as a community leader, is making sure this information gets out into everybody’s hands so that they can make informed decisions.

George Bullard:

Reverend Melvin, if I could follow-up on part of your concern, when you get the vaccine, they enter all of your information into the computer, and before you get the second dose, they’re going to look up your record in the computer and see what you had before. Plus, they give you a card that shows what vaccine you had the first time, and you’ll need to take that card with you the second time just as a double check. Then they’ll be sure that you get the same medicine that you got the first time.

Pastor Melvin:

Excellent.

George Bullard:

I wanted to say one other thing, Andre Rogers, if you don’t mind. I will say that the whole community, we all on this screen and so many of us believe that every person is a person of worth, created in the image of God to live and to love. We want every person to be able to be healthy, to be a servant of the Lord, to enjoy family, to enjoy life. Our encouragement here has no motivation other than we love you, and we know that our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, loves you.

Dr. Andre Rogers:

Well, I want to thank everyone for being on this afternoon, and I want to thank Dr. Bullard before I turn it back over to him. Thank you for your expertise and thank you for your service, Chief Austin and Dr. Kenneth Rogers, and Savanna Rogers, and also Senator Scott and Pastor Melvin. Thank you for what you all do in the community to make a community impact week in and week out. As Dr. Bullard said, our motivation for doing this is because we love our community, we love our people, we love African-American people, we love all people, all people are valuable in the sight of God. It’s good to see our community leaders as a role model and example of what should happen in the days ahead. We’re excited about this time, and I’m excited as a pastor, as a preacher, to see what God will do with this medical technology, with this vaccine, to see all people groups, healthy and whole.

I want to read a passage of scripture before Dr. Bullard closes. The 23rd psalm has always been a word of comfort in our community. “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. He makes me to lie down in green pastures; he leads me beside the still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepared a table before me in the presence of mine enemies; you anointed my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life; and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. AMEN”

Thank you. Dr. Bullard.

George Bullard:

We appreciate the panel that’s been on, and the sacrifice of time that they’ve made in the sharing of expertise and passion and emotion for all of God’s people who we love and want to be healthy. Thank you.

Chris Reinolds:

And to all of our listeners, thank you for joining with us. Please be sure to check out the show notes for more detailed information about today’s show. Also, if you found this podcast helpful for you and your ministry, share it with others so we can get the word out about what God is doing. Until next time, from all of us, we thank you for listening and urge you to share this podcast with everyone you know. It’s the good news about the Good News and the Columbia Metro Baptist Association.

About the author 

Kyndra Bremer